KOA: My name is Micheal. We’re the Kids of America journalism program at St. Veronica’s Academy, an after-school program in Cherry Hill.

KOA: Mr. Hrabowski, what influenced you to move out of Alabama?

FH: First of all, my name is Dr. Hrabowski.—Dr., and the H is silent. I went to college in Virginia at Hampton. I left high school and went to college in Virginia and then to get my Ph.D. at University of Illinois and I’ve not moved back to Alabama. I go and visit family.

KOA: What was your life like when you were younger?

FH: I had great parents--hard-working parents—a mother and father and grandparents and a lot of neighbors who would help take care of me and who would serve as my parents when my parents weren’t around. I went to church a lot and school a lot, and studied a lot…and it was a community of love.

KOA: What part of your education was most resourceful to where you are now?

FH: I think having parents who always supported me in study, and teachers who cared about me, and people in the neighborhood and at my church who always told me it was great to be smart and who really were telling me to work hard to be my best.

KOA: Who was your role model when you were young?

FH: My parents--because they were hard workers and leaders in their community and they were teachers. My father worked three jobs and my mother worked three jobs to give us the best. And Dr. King was a role model, my pastor was a role model, my principal was a role model, and older boys who were all going off to college were role models. I watched them go off to college and I said I wanted to be like them.

KOA: When you were little, did you have any music stars or any popular people who do stuff on TV as your role models?

FH: I don’t know if you know it, but I went to jail when I was 12. But it was an honor. I went to jail with Dr. King. I was a child leader in the civil rights movement. I was 12 and I took a group of children who were younger—who were 8 and 9 and 10—to jail. We marched in Birmingham and we went to City Hall and we were put in jail. And Dr. King was my role model, for sure. Why? Because he was intelligent and he spoke well and he was a leader and he told us that we were capable of doing all kinds of things. He was my role model more than any other—Dr. King was.

KOA: How did you feel when you were kicked out of school for protesting?

FH: They suspended us for protesting. I was an “A” student and I was hurt. I knew it was not my principal or the teachers who wanted us to be suspended from school. But my principal was very smart. When the school board told him he had to put all the kids who had gone to jail out of school, he had the entire school come together in the same way we did with the honor society. And each person who had gone to jail was asked to stand. And once they stood, he talked about leadership and courage, and he told the whole school: “These are your leaders.” And rather than us having to feel that we were disgraced, he was saying that it was an honor to do the right thing. So, while it was strange to be suspended from school because I was serious, I felt that he was saying I was doing the right thing. He did a great job, he really did.

KOA: How do you think your expertise in mathematics could help young black males and females?

FH: I like that question. When I do math problems or when I teach math, I get goose bumps. I get goose bumps all over. You know why, because I get excited by math. You know why? Because math is power. Math—when you can think critically, when you can figure out answers to problems concerning money….My budget here at the university is $300 million--$300 million. Every year. For young black males, black females, and for children in general, if you can think well, if you can solve math problems, you learn how to solve problems in general. The same things you learn with math you can learn and use with life in general. All the time.

KOA: What is your method of teaching?

FH: I am convinced that teachers need to find out what children like. For example, if I told you that my wife and I just gave this university $250,000 out of our pockets, all of you will be going whoa, whoa, why? Because everybody likes money, alright? So, when I’m talking about teaching, I’m saying things that I know would excite people. Otherwise people would go to sleep on you. Let me give you another example. When I say I get goose bumps in math, you’re going: “Is he for real?” Yeah, I am for real. I always did. When I was your age, I wasn’t always ready to tell people, but I did. I always liked math. It made a difference. Teaching has to do with connecting--tell me your name again.

KOA: Hosie.

FH: Hosie. Alright. So I need to be learning what Hosie likes and what excites Hosie--what gets him ready to work hard, what gets him to understand that if he studies hard and goes to college he can do all kinds of things. So my method of teaching is to connect to the person, is to explain things clearly, to not use big words—just to say it as it is—but it is to show that I care enough that when somebody says that ain’t no budget, I can tell him: “That isn’t a budget.” Because I want him to speak standard English all the time. Why? Because when you go for that interview, they will judge you by how you speak.

KOA: The next question is what would you say to kids struggling in middle school, and how would you help them?

FH: First of all, every child should know that he or she is special. It’s very important. If you believe that you are special, if you believe that you can do all kinds of things if you work hard, it will help you to do more and more. I saw my first Ph.D. when I was 13. I was in a special program in math and science at a place called Tuskegee University, and this man was really smart and he was doing math problems and he could talk about books, and I said I want to be like him.

KOA: Isn’t Tuskegee where the Tuskegee Airman was?

FH: Yes, yes, that’s right. The Tuskegee Airmen went to school at Tuskegee. Very good, Hosie. The fact is that I saw that man and said I want to be like him. So, every day beginning at age 13, I would look in the mirror and say: “Good Morning, Dr. Hrabowski.” Now, I never let anyone see me because they would have thought I was crazy, right, I was 13 years old. But before I was even washing my face, I looked in the mirror and said: “Good Morning, Dr. Hrabowski.” I could see it. So the point to you is we need to be telling young people they’re special—that they can do anything they set their minds to and if they work hard, if they listen to teachers, and if they keep their rooms clean. If you can get in the habit of being organized with things around you, you can organize your thinking. But when everything is everywhere, it’s very hard to decide you’re going to do things. If you don’t have a list--I have to do this, and this and this. I want middle school children to think they want to be as successful in life as possible, and education makes the difference. So, it’s talking to them that makes the difference.

KOA: Wouldn’t he become one of your role models then?

FH: The guy that I was talking about? He was. It’s just that I only knew him one summer. But I did. You are absolutely right. He is one of my role models. He was a mathematician. He was brilliant. My principal was a role model. He was a mathematician—he would come into the room. He would put a math problem on the board. And anybody that solved it would get a nickel. A nickel was a lot of money then. Five cents—you could get five Tootsie Rolls, and I was a fat little kid. I loved to eat. I could get five Tootsie Rolls with a nickel, boy. I loved--I’d be working those math problems to get that money.

KOA: They he don’t have no neck—he just got an extra chin.

FH: [laughs] They say he doesn’t have a neck.

KOA: If you could add more curriculum to your college, what would you add?

FH: A course in comparative religions. We have students here from 90 different countries. We have people who are Christians, who are Jews, who are Hindus, who are Muslims, alright? And those are religions. Then we have people who are Black, white, Asian, Hispanic from all over the world, alright? And one of the biggest problems in our world is that, while many people may be religious, there are all kinds of conflicts having to do with differences in our cultures.

KOA: Like the war in Iraq?

FH: Um, hm. And a major part of the conflict comes because we don’t understand each other. We don’t understand what comes as a result of our religions.

KOA: Bush, he don’t understand nothing--

FH: Don’t use those double negatives. Bush doesn’t understand anything. President Bush—is that what you’re saying? Well, you can have an opinion—that’s your opinion. But I do think that our country broadly seems not to sometimes understand the culture and values of others and the impact of religion. So I think all Americans need to know much more about language and culture and religion. So the course would be on comparative religions. And the other course would be on issues involving diversity and poverty in our country itself

KOA: What are your duties as the president of UMBC, and which is your favorite?

FH: The President of the university is responsible for the overall operation of the campus, meaning, ultimately, he or she, in our case, he, is responsible for hiring and supporting faculty, helping to recruit students, working to build the research of the campus, and making sure teaching goes well, and making sure the budget is handled well. There are a lot of people who do all that work, but ultimately it’s the president’s responsibility because if it doesn’t go well, if something doesn’t work, the buck stops here. Know what that means? No more Freeman Hrabowski. The purpose of the presidency, though, is to provide leadership to the campus—to help them to build the community and to focus on the vision for the campus—where we want to go, what we want to do, and most important, to set the tone. What I like most is working with the students. I love working with students because education transforms lives. It helps you to think well and to dream about the possibilities of what you want to do with your life.

KOA: When you said something about taking $25,000 out of your pocket, did you carry $25,000 in your pocket?

FH: I said $250,000. When I say out of my pocket, I don’t mean right here, but I mean money from my bank--a figure of speech. You’re very impressive already, but I want you to be serious, thinking critically about the questions and listening carefully and being very mature. What I learned when I was 12 years old going to jail was that children can make decisions that can affect their lives forever. And that children can think very critically—that children can think far more effectively than adults sometimes think, if they are asked to rise to the occasion, to be young thinking individuals. People in other countries tend to expect students to be more serious than we do. I learned that I was older than I thought I was—that 12 years old was old enough to make a hard decision to go to jail, that 12 years old was old enough to help those 8 and 9 year-olds to stop crying about missing their mothers and 12 years old was enough to quite frankly to have the courage to be there with the dogs and the fire hoses and very, very, very abusive people. I know that an 11-year-old or 10-year-old can make a lot of decisions. I know that every day a lot of children in our country are confronted with decisions about do I sell drugs? Do I take a joint? Will I try to smoke one? Will I let someone get me to smoke one? Will I steal something? Will I get involved in sex? You have to make those decisions all the time. And you can decide by thinking well the difference between right and wrong. You can decide it right now. I’ve had little boys—we work with a lot of little kids who get into trouble. And the problem is that they didn’t think about their decision. Long answer. But you get it.

KOA: At my school we have shortages of teachers but I spoke, and the person we was interviewing, Ms. Copeland, she took into consideration what I said, and they made a meeting about teachers at school. And we just got a new science teacher. So, my question to you is what kind of math teachers would you sending to Cherry Hill Elementary/Middle School?

FH: Somebody who loves math, first of all, and somebody who is enthusiastic, excited about math and somebody who can challenge you to be your best.

KOA: You got to be tough as nails, too.

FH: Oh, I understand. I understand. I understand. Because I know it takes a teacher a lot to keep students of your age anywhere in line.

KOA: You got to be tough as nails and if you come to our school and you slip up one time, I feel sorry for you….

FH: Drama, drama, drama. I’ll tell you this. The key is this. I understand exactly what you’re saying, and I think that the good news is that there are people who care enough about you that they can be tough when they have to be tough. Because every child wants direction, whether the child knows it or not. Every child wants to feel cared about, wants to know somebody cares about them, and every child wants direction. And if a teacher can come in with that approach, you’ll be surprised—a lot can happen.



KOA: Out of all the books that you wrote, which one do you think inspires black males or females the most?

FH: I think the Overcoming the Odds and Beating the Odds. I think that people can find examples in each of those books for boys and for girls about what mothers did, what fathers did, what grandmothers did, what kids did themselves that helped them to overcome all kinds of odds and all kinds of situations. My next book is going to be on unusual people regardless of race who do things that you just would never think possible. And I’m thinking of a young woman here who is 22, who is Indian, and she cannot move any part of her body. She can’t move anything. She is completely paralyzed and she is graduating—it’s hard for me to even say it without getting tears—she’s graduating this year with a 4.0 in biology.

KOA: Do you think people get what you wrote?

FH: Oh, yes. It’s written simply and I think they get the point that parents make a difference, teachers make a difference, and children themselves make a difference. That it’s up to all of us. You have a role to play, tour teachers have a role, and your families have a role to play.

KOA: As a boy growing up in Alabama, did you think you would make it as far as you did? For instance, how you graduated from Hampton Institute with highest honors in math?

FH: I had no idea. I simply knew that I wanted to work hard and I was told to work that I needed to be twice as good because the understanding was that a white child looking like me would have more advantages. That I needed to be really good to stand out, quite frankly, but I didn’t know how far I would go. No. I knew I’d be fortunate to do well. I knew no one I had met worked harder than I did. Nothing takes the place of hard work. I don’t care how smart you are. Nothing takes the place of hard work. If you’ve got two people—one is super smart and lazy and the other one is pretty good, is intelligent but really hard-working. Give me that person, because that person can do anything. That’s it. Persistence. It’s true. The things that you were told when you were 6, 7 8 and 9 and right now are the same things that will last you for the rest of your lives.

KOA: As I learned in research and from you saying it, you were taken to jail with other school children for protesting against segregation in Birmingham, Alabama. How did you feel when you were taken to jail?

FH: Frightened.

KOA: What did you learn there?

FH: Very frightened. I was frightened but inspired but frightened, very frightened. There were dogs fighting people.

KOA: Oh. Sometimes if you go to jail do they teach you another thing, how to respect and stuff like that. They’ll teach you disciple.

FH: It’ll teach you discipline. It really does. The sad part is that there are so many black boys—teenagers who are in jail. It’s so sad. I learned again that I did not want to be in jail--did not want to be in jail.